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From: Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2025 22:30:44 +0100
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Subject: Re: Images in news mails
To: Tobias Bussmann <t.bussmann@gmx.net>
Cc: "Jonathan S. Katz" <jkatz@postgresql.org>, pgsql-www@lists.postgresql.org
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On Mon, 8 Sept 2025 at 10:50, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2025 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Tobias Bussmann <t.bussmann@gmx.ne=
t> wrote:
>
>> Am 05.09.2025 um 20:23 schrieb Jonathan S. Katz <jkatz@postgresql.org>:
>> > This has plagued me for years, and I'm so happy you tracked this down!
>>
>> I'm happy to hear, I'm not the only one seeing this. Glad to help!
>>
>
> What's more amazing is that AFAIK this is the first time *anyone* has
> reported this to be a problem. And it's been this way since 2020...
>
> It is also slightly ironic that it's apple mail that's seeing the problem=
,
> given it's quite overrepresented in *generating* broken attachments in
> similar ways when you look in the archive :)
>
>
> > The patch looks good; have you tested in a few other mail clients? I
>> haven't had a chance to test yet.
>>
>> I haven't tried other mail clients myself, but as the style definition i=
s
>> just redundant to the img attributes, I wouldn't expect any regression b=
y
>> this. But HTML emails are full of miracles ;)
>>
>
> Indeed it does. For example, you mentioned the possibility of embedding
> the image instead of attaching - that *does* break multiple clients, I
> think at least Outlook and maybe also gmail.
>

I have pushed the patch that adds the extra attributes now. Somehow I
thought I had to review a more complex patch and.. Put it off :)


>> Litmus.com has become quite expensive for render previews, so I looked
>> for alternatives. I found Testi.at, which offers some free tests at leas=
t.
>> Unfortunately, I was unable to provide the full MIME structure there and
>> thus could not simulate the CID-referenced image that causes the problem=
 in
>> Apple Mail. When I experimented with an externally hosted image, the res=
ult
>> looked good in the provided previews. However, I visually identified
>> another issue: Outlook does not seem to support the 'float' style attrib=
ute
>> [1 footnote 1]. In the v2 patch, I implemented a workaround to duplicate
>> the 'float' style using an 'align' img attribute. Previews of the result=
ing
>> rendering can be found at [2].
>>
>>
> PGEU does have a subscription to a service that could be used for testing=
.
> We'd need to adapt the test instance of the website for it, but that's
> fairly easy to do.
>

Been testing one with that. But in that service now *all* our emails are
broken on *all* MUAs, so it's not really working... I've filed a bug with
them, we will see if they can figure it out.

--=20
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/>
 Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, 8 Sept 2025 at 10:50, Magnus Haga=
nder &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:magnus@hagander.net">magnus@hagander.net</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>=
</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">=
On Sun, Sep 7, 2025 at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM Tobias Bussmann &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:t.bussmann@gmx.net" target=3D"_blank">t.bussmann@gmx.net</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Am 05.09.2025 um =
20:23 schrieb Jonathan S. Katz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jkatz@postgresql.org" =
target=3D"_blank">jkatz@postgresql.org</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt; This has plagued me for years, and I&#39;m so happy you tracked this d=
own!<br>
<br>
I&#39;m happy to hear, I&#39;m not the only one seeing this. Glad to help!<=
br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What&#39;s more amazing is that AFAIK t=
his is the first time *anyone* has reported this to be a problem. And it=
9;s been this way since 2020...</div><div><br></div><div>It is also slightl=
y ironic that it&#39;s apple mail that&#39;s seeing the problem, given it&#=
39;s quite overrepresented in *generating* broken attachments in similar wa=
ys when you look in the archive :)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt; The patch looks good; have you tested in a few other mail clients? I h=
aven&#39;t had a chance to test yet.<br>
<br>
I haven&#39;t tried other mail clients myself, but as the style definition =
is just redundant to the img attributes, I wouldn&#39;t expect any regressi=
on by this. But HTML emails are full of miracles ;)<br></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div>Indeed it does. For example, you mentioned the=C2=A0possibilit=
y of embedding the image instead of attaching - that *does* break multiple =
clients, I think at least Outlook and maybe also gmail.</div></div></div></=
blockquote><div><br></div><div>I have pushed the patch that adds the extra =
attributes now. Somehow I thought I had to review a more complex patch and.=
. Put it off :)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Litmus.com has become quite expensive for render previews, so I looked for =
alternatives. I found Testi.at, which offers some free tests at least. Unfo=
rtunately, I was unable to provide the full MIME structure there and thus c=
ould not simulate the CID-referenced image that causes the problem in Apple=
 Mail. When I experimented with an externally hosted image, the result look=
ed good in the provided previews. However, I visually identified another is=
sue: Outlook does not seem to support the &#39;float&#39; style attribute [=
1 footnote 1]. In the v2 patch, I implemented a workaround to duplicate the=
 &#39;float&#39; style using an &#39;align&#39; img attribute. Previews of =
the resulting rendering can be found at [2].<br><br></blockquote><div><br><=
/div><div>PGEU does have a subscription to a service that could be used for=
 testing. We&#39;d need to adapt the test instance of the website for it, b=
ut that&#39;s fairly easy to do.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div>Been testing one with that. But in that service now *all* our email=
s are broken on *all* MUAs, so it&#39;s not really working... I&#39;ve file=
d a bug with them, we will see if they can figure it out.</div><div><br></d=
iv></div><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"l=
tr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=C2=A0Magnus Hagander<b=
r>=C2=A0Me: <a href=3D"http://www.hagander.net/" target=3D"_blank">https://=
www.hagander.net/</a><br>=C2=A0Work: <a href=3D"http://www.redpill-linpro.c=
om/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.redpill-linpro.com/</a></div></div></div=
></div>

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