Received: from malur.postgresql.org ([217.196.149.56]) by arkaria.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1vT1Gb-00BVgF-0r for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 17:12:49 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=malur.postgresql.org) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtp (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1vT1GY-005iEW-2v for pgsql-advocacy@arkaria.postgresql.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 17:12:47 +0000 Received: from magus.postgresql.org ([2a02:c0:301:0:ffff::29]) by malur.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1vT1GY-005iEN-0R for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 17:12:46 +0000 Received: from fout-a2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([103.168.172.145]) by magus.postgresql.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1vT1GV-0044vh-15 for pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2025 17:12:46 +0000 Received: from phl-compute-04.internal (phl-compute-04.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailfout.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 171F7EC043E; Tue, 9 Dec 2025 12:12:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-01 ([10.202.2.162]) by phl-compute-04.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 09 Dec 2025 12:12:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aklaver.com; h= cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1765300361; x=1765386761; bh=Uvjv2ZiOGLNE7viqdFfwh/I04G8uXFQh4vBNpK6nxGU=; b= P2+X+u+NP7UBw8I82njUeAi+ZrDukiXdEcVegf/ZbzJwr1JKtJ9NqI5YzhQ9dpMN DAWapNqmtzh79Mryt3SoxPGdwTmyQbMuz6FLbA8/RPOtEVC1qm1//ux4JGYU8F4k 7qW3X1QgO/ymffcbplb0Ad29mm0puLaQKJG4DB4SOaRVomm6fyaZBMcDEnf9sN/B 8uoiHLQTvj+yOCkf1U/hk6QxiKFSmkx8Ovy6xUzHKqY5bUpAw42w6Z2DtFesI/6V uomshkr/oH6E/N6o0g2ofeLjoNVgZtfLDOtqJStrq9AkbewnHjn3bVtJdkBTilak YNDhysqE32Sa+eAl5gcihw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t=1765300361; x= 1765386761; bh=Uvjv2ZiOGLNE7viqdFfwh/I04G8uXFQh4vBNpK6nxGU=; b=Z BaVvLlz6DQW/Grc+0ShUS9OC5ahlLEdpi2rpzlqbtO99jfHENdy6V8GQhjxHzHu+ bmyqTPRhDvXCt+TTZs2iW/v1PW3J/AikRo22wdbIZGxT8kZ9rTLiPk51XJwQWBSw S7c+vOL3Nzk6CGxATUPIvJAoEp+Rfcgf/ET0b62Lkiz4/AAK8O8I2c6OP9JYzfay ri9YaP5TdHoW+SaiWkafv108MUc0hU1BNo5+t7tS3hQjuVmOqz0YbWb41BPCGFJr +cSw/BzQnSvTmtGwjy3Q7bEVfftixQ0E8/MQmf13D9WcAJWz8bgi59qFUr7uc6qg Tmnk7Pxc42beL6AEYBlng== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefgedrtddtgddvtdduvdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegr ihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjug hrpefkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjggtgfesthekredttddvjeenucfhrhhomheptegurhhirghn ucfmlhgrvhgvrhcuoegrughrihgrnhdrkhhlrghvvghrsegrkhhlrghvvghrrdgtohhmqe enucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeefgeefieeutdfggfetgefgheekjeehteeileeigfetieek jedvieeviefgheevtdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrih hlfhhrohhmpegrughrihgrnhdrkhhlrghvvghrsegrkhhlrghvvghrrdgtohhmpdhnsggp rhgtphhtthhopeejpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopegrnhgurhgvsh esrghnrghrrgiivghlrdguvgdprhgtphhtthhopehrohgsvghrthhmhhgrrghssehgmhgr ihhlrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepughprghgvgesphhgrggumhhinhdrohhrghdprhgtph htthhopehumhgrihhrrdhshhgrhhhiugesghhmrghilhdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopehh thgrmhhfihgushesghhmrghilhdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopegtohhrnhgvlhhirgdrsg hirggtshhitghssehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepphhgshhqlhdqrgguvhho tggrtgihsehlihhsthhsrdhpohhsthhgrhgvshhqlhdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i76984098:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 9 Dec 2025 12:12:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 09:12:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Non-Compete Challenges for Community Work To: Andres Freund , Robert Haas Cc: Dave Page , Umair Shahid , Greg Sabino Mullane , Cornelia Biacsics , pgsql-advocacy@lists.postgresql.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Adrian Klaver In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: Archived-At: Precedence: bulk On 12/9/25 08:42, Andres Freund wrote: > Hi, > > On 2025-12-08 09:20:18 -0500, Robert Haas wrote: >> On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 8:24 AM Dave Page wrote: >>> Agreed - and companies like pgEdge and EDB have policies and often employment contracts that specifically encourage contributions. >> >> I'm kind of surprised by the direction of this conversation, because >> I'm aware of some problematic cases. > > Seconded. I'm also aware of quite a few cases. I'm rather surprised to hear so > many others not having seen problems - IME it's a rather substantial portion > of job changes that run into problems around non-competes. > > Sure, in most cases the non-competes are not in the end not going to be > legally enforceable. But it's going to cost a lot of lawyer time to go to that > point, and most are going to do their best to stay far away from the legal > system. It seems to me since this is a legal issue it merits a legal response. My thought is the fund suggested in the original post go to sponsoring legal representation from one of the FOSS law firms in aid of challenging the non-competes. Making companies cough up money to defend what are probably non-legal actions would get their attention. Once it becomes plain there is a cost associated with the clauses I suspect their use would diminish. Yes, I realize we are getting into the realm of international law and it could get complicated. > > Greetings, > > Andres Freund > > -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com